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The Modern Independent
The Modern Independent
From Corporate Layoff to Consultancy Triumph: Ben Getz Shares His Journey and Tips for Success
What would you do if you found yourself unexpectedly laid off from your corporate job, with a young family to support?
This episode of the Modern Independent offers an inspiring story as we sit down with Ben Goetz, who transformed a career setback into a flourishing independent consultancy. Ben takes us through his incredible journey from the shock of being laid off to the creation of his own sustainable business, Team Getz, specializing in e-commerce operations.
Hear how his resourcefulness and adaptability played crucial roles in overcoming initial challenges and why building trust with clients was fundamental to his success.
We discuss the often surprising simplicity of forming an LLC, the advantages it offers in managing taxes and operational efficiency, and tips for avoiding common pitfalls, such as the lure of third-party services. By sharing his own experiences, Ben provides practical advice that can help you navigate the journey smoothly, shedding light on why using official state resources can save you time and money.
Ben wraps up this episode by delving into the intricacies of his work, from strategic communications and the art of crafting effective email newsletters to the value of authenticity in client relations.
He also reflects on his transformative experience with IndeCollective, a program that helped him take risks and embrace discomfort for growth. Tune in for a wealth of insights that could prove invaluable for anyone considering or currently navigating the path of independent work.
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Welcome everybody to another episode of the Modern Independent. As you heard in the pre-reel, we are a podcast dedicated to empowering independent consultants, coaches, web developers, designers and everybody pretty much across all spectrums of the job field. As long as you are passionate about being an independent worker, we're here for you. In today's episode, I'm going to be hanging out with Indie Collective alumni Ben Goetz. We're going to be diving into a little bit of his background, some of his career path, what he's getting into now and his experience with the Indie Collective curriculum. So, ben, thanks for coming on the show. Hey, thanks for having me. You are super, super welcome man.
Speaker 1:So I think lately I've been starting these episodes off with just kind of a dive back right. I like to rewind before we get to where you're at currently and what you're doing. So almost everybody has some type of origin story when it comes to going independent, right, For some people it didn't feel like a choice, for other people it was very intentional and then for people like me, you kind of fall into it and then next thing you know you're like, oh wow, I'm doing entrepreneurial things. Which one of those categories do you fall into? Or maybe there's a checkbox for other category. That was Ben's experience. But how did you enter the idea of going independent?
Speaker 2:it for a few years. I spent the bulk of my career in the really more like the corporate marketing setting. So I worked for a lot of large brands that you would know, a lot of tech-based companies, large brands, you know, with worldwide footprints, national footprints, and so I think I just kind of had the idea that I was subscribed to being, you know, like a cog in a larger marketing team for a larger corporation. And then, as life would have it, I am working for a large company in the Atlanta area and my wife is at home with our two very young children at the time and I got to experience what it was like to be let go from a massive, massive team, which you know just, I mean it happens, you know, I mean it's just a, it's a formulation of restructuring or, um, you know flattening ladders of teams and you know, and so on and so forth. So I got to experience that firsthand and then the hardship of that was it's just really practical things you know of being, you know, still pretty young in my career. You know we're pretty young parents and the only things that really matter is they're like I just have to take care of my family, I have to provide things like health insurance and we have to be able to, you know, live and pay our rent and buy groceries, and you know and, and, and you know basics. And so I, you know, I, very desperately in this time where I had, I was very, I was very fortunate and they were very generous to give me a nice long off ramp of severance, which was super helpful.
Speaker 2:And you know, and I was really not maybe not desperately, but probably desperately trying to find my way back into some corporate outfit where I was a W-2 employee with role, responsibility, just things that I understood, you know, things that were more like a part of being a larger marketing team where I wasn't necessarily a specialist but, you know, I had some semblance of a definition of a role. So that's really what I was searching for and found my way down a slew of interviews and different opportunities all over the place and ended up getting offered a job, albeit in a different city, and then, for whatever reason, it didn't sit well with having to move our family to a completely different state. And then, you know, in that there was a turn where I was, you know, through that connection it just kind of lofted the idea of you know, hey, would you be interested in doing some contract work while you're looking for something more full-time? And it wasn't really something that I had really considered, so I just decided to say yes. That conversation turned into trial-level work and then that trial level work very quickly turned into work that I was able to retain and continue doing on a consistent basis, and then that turned into the first you know contract that I was able to retain, and then that turned into two, and then two turned into four. And that's why I say like I don't know that it was really a choice.
Speaker 2:I think it kind of it really presented itself to me and then I don't really think I realized that I was in the middle of like, hey, I actually have probably a pretty viable business here that I can run by myself that's based off of skills that I've acquired and especially, you know that again, like not really being a specialist, but just things that I knew that I had developed and and just being resourceful and just and knowing how to and knowing how to build trust, to know that I was capable of or I guess the better way of answering is like I knew that I was capable of being the person that someone would hire to find the answer or find the solution, knowing full well that I might not have that answer or solution outright, but knowing that I was the person that they could trust to do so. So, I mean, I think being a scrappy, young dad, millennial, ready to take on the challenge, is really where I found myself, and you know, so it was. Yeah, I mean, gosh, it's. It's crazy to think that that was six years ago. And, um, if, if anyone were to say, hey, man, six years, in six years, here's what you're going to be doing, it would have felt like Everest, you know.
Speaker 2:But I mean again, like in, in those moments, you know, the only thing that you're thinking of is like, the only thing that you're thinking of is like I have to solve the problem of the immediate, of right now. The only thing I cared about was my, my wife and my kids and, just like you know, maintaining, you know, the, the life that we had without having to, you know, scramble, you know. So how, how do I, how do I fill that gap? Basically, that's the only thing that I was really focused on.
Speaker 1:And I, yeah, sorry, no, you're good, I mean to cut you off, but something that really stands out to me as you're talking about it, and I'd love to point out stories or themes that I've heard pretty consistently over and over again. Right, because one of the things about being the head of community is that I get to host these things called office hours, right, and so this 30 minute sessions, and now it's been hundreds of of people that have come through the program that I've gotten to sit down and talk to you and like have those conversations with. And that's where those, the initial, you know, question came from. Like, here are the three types of categories that, like, typically people find and it sounds like you, you kind of fall into that, um, I fell into it, or it presented itself to me category, right, you're kind of unaware of it. And the next thing, you know, you're like wait, do I have a business? I have a business. Yeah, you're like this is happening.
Speaker 1:Um, and I I love um. Brad White is a is another member. I think he was in your cohort, or maybe your second one.
Speaker 2:I love Brad White.
Speaker 1:But I was just talking to another member the other day, or a prospective member for our spring cohort, about Brad and how I could never operate like Brad.
Speaker 1:But I really respect the way Brad operates because he just shoots from the hip directly and then goes for it and then deals with the consequences, iterates and then just goes for it again.
Speaker 1:And I kind of distill that down and I know a lot of other people like that and it seems like there's this beautiful way of moving through that process where you're not really ever seeking specific opportunities but you're keeping yourself ready to seize the opportunities that present themselves to you. And it sounds like that's been kind of a part of your journey is like these opportunities present themselves and then, as you're continuing to go through the process, you're willing to go out on a limb and seize that opportunity as it comes in and to your point it may seem like Mount Everest if you were to think of where you are now and you had that awareness back then. But if you're able to think like I just need to get to the next plateau, I just need to figure out how to fill the next gap, I just need to figure out how to the next gap, next thing you know, you look back over six years and you're like, holy crap, I summited Everest.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you know it's a really it's comical to think of, and not that I would tell anyone that I have a significant amount of advice to impart or even experience that I would say is transferable or can really even transpose, you know. But the one thing that I would say is not, I mean, and again I think my position was so solely based on provision, where you know, like it's simply, if there's an absence of this, I have to make it into a presence, I have to fill that gap. There can't be a gap Like, basically, that's the only equation that matters is there can't be negative space in this space in our life. So, um, so I think remaining open, um, especially because and this is this is just such an interesting thing, because even, um, even just recently, having a few conversations with people who work, you know, more so in like the, like professional development space, or even like professional coaching space, is, um, I think the thing that I've really found for me and again it's it's really just where where a lot of my experience has led me is I I never even once considered the, the idea of specializing in one thing or having something that I could say, like man, it's so easy for me to productize because it hits a business at a very specific time in wherever they are like, in some sort of gestational period or life cycle of where they are with their current business model or product or whatever. I have done so many things that are very difficult to quantify in a way that they would fit into the same category or fit into the same level of need. But again, everything kind of ties back to a lot of things that I either had a lot of experience in or just enough with a resourceful attitude and approach, where it was pretty easy to become this solutions person, you know, and just being solutions minded of.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean it was, it was just this place that I had to really put myself and saying yes and knowing that I really didn't, I mean I guess I didn't have the opportunity to say no to a certain extent, you know. I mean you know what, what, what would it be that would be the deterrent, you know, for me to say no, what, what would I? What would I have to? Where would I have to be in order to turn down work? You know, I was never in that place. I was like man the more that I can do, the more it's going to create a foundation for me to stand on. It's going to be either a short or a long-term learning experience for me. Everything is great.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it definitely turned from that into I'm not kidding man a couple of years had gone by and then I finally got to the point and I was having conversations with my accountant or financial planner and they're like hey, have you ever considered incorporating and actually setting up an LLC, basically making a business, rather than you just being like a sole proprietor? So that conversation became a narrative and that's what led me finally to the path where it's like man, I actually had this a long time ago, but you know. So, getting getting to the point where, yeah, they're like are you sure you don't want to turn this into a S corp? Yeah, and it's funny too, like on that note, I mean I think that's that's probably like one of the biggest pieces of um. You know if it's advice or just like my experience, just from turning, turning the path into um, I mean there's multiple levels of viability.
Speaker 2:You know, for me it was never about legitimacy. I was like I don't have to, I don't want to feel like an agency. I'm not, I don't present myself as an agency, like I'm one person, um, I mean again like a very resourceful person that can probably move really nimbly, but I never positioned myself as like, oh, I'm this company. It's like, hey, it's just me, like this is me, like this's a few things that we can, you know, have as as as conversation starters or thought starters, and so you know, I I think that just having having that type of experience, it was, yeah, it was, it was just really it was really surprising when I got to the, to the point of of realizing that it's a lot more simplified than I ever thought it could be.
Speaker 2:And things are just I mean almost everything just in terms of turning down the path of like, hey, you're working as a sole proprietor into forming an LLC and having a business, and more like proper back office, maybe you're filing as an S corp. You know, just like simple things that other people have taught me really within the past, like two years, um, it is. That is the one thing that I would say is like I just had this. I had this idea that it was so shrouded in mystery that it was complicated, that it required that it was complicated, that it required. You know, I don't know like a tax professional, a shaman. You know a. You know like a lawyer.
Speaker 1:I was going to say the shaman that is also a lawyer on the side.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know. And again, man, like it's just like, it's just this weird like fallacy that I just I just did not have the capacity to really engage. And I mean, I think the best part of that story is, like, I was just so wrong about it, like, and I don't know that it was the same thing probably like 10 years ago, but I mean the process, I think, in a lot of different directions, is just on rails, like it's just like, hey, uh, click this button to get started. A couple of days go by and then, yeah, like, all of your paperwork for becoming an LLC can be done, you know. And then there's just people who know things that you don't have to understand or understand fully or find answers to, because these people that you can hire to do these things for you are out there and I mean, again, man, they just dispel a lot of like these, I think, just rumors that you might somehow buy into, not even from an individual, but just that you kind of tell yourself.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean it was funny how I just kind of looked back and I had this. I had something really great all along, and I think that's probably the biggest thing that I've learned is if, after like my first year, year and a half, someone had just said, hey, just do these things, like that's the one thing that I would recommend to anyone is there's just no reason to hesitate. It's such a great move just to have solid tax professionals, back office, bookkeeping software oh my gosh and then getting to the point where it's just a level of viability for the way that you can run things as a business are so much more efficient than just being a sole proprietor. So that's the biggest thing that I feel like I've learned just from a structural business standpoint.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I tell people all the time and I just had this conversation with a buddy of mine the other day because he was Googling around and he was like, oh, it says that it's going to cost me like $300 through this company to file my LLC and some of this other stuff. And I said, go to this Ohio Secretary of State, do a name search. If it doesn't show up, go to their articles of organization filing, pick the name, pay 99 bucks. You just have to put your name and the date of the filing and some other very basic information on it. You can file for your EIN number, your federal identification number, for free on irsgov and then you can start to get bookkeeper or, if you have partners, you can talk to a lawyer about an operating agreement or any of that other kind of stuff. But all the rest of it is so simple and I'm with you.
Speaker 1:I mean I didn't learn. I mean I went to nursing school so we didn't learn anything about incorporating or LLCs or anything like that period. But it blows my mind how, how intense people perceive that process to be, and I find that a lot in Indie Collective too, which I have. One more question that I want to ask you about your Indie Collective experience. But I find that in Indie Collective, too, that there's parts of the curriculum where and I think we have maybe even had this conversation when you first came into the community, but I'm like everybody by week five is having an existential crisis. That is the general state of the union. You get through the first couple of weeks and you're like oh, I'm designing my life.
Speaker 1:This is going to be great. There's so many things happening and then by week five you're like I don't, I have nothing, I don't know what's going on. Like there's so many things. But you get to that place and like I think part of it is I don't think it's intimidation or overwhelm, because there and it's actually not as bad as I thought, but there's a lot of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:To do so before we get into the like, I kind of want to plant that scene, but before we get into the indie collective experience, I'm curious. I mean we've talked about kind of your, your journey into it and a little bit about what you do, but but team gets is your site. You know that you launched, I think, either during or immediately after one of the cohorts. You were able to kind of get that moving, um and so what is in your mind, team gets and like, what are some of the services that you are the most passionate about? You don't have to go through your entire services list, but maybe some examples of you know a project that you got the chance to work on that you really enjoyed, or some of the parts that you get to do with customers that really bring joy into your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's really cool, you know. I mean I've just I've had an opportunity to work as a consultant, you know, really mostly in the in the e-commerce space, and I think initially I would have probably defined a lot of what I did or do really more with a marketing veneer, and really more lately I think a lot of it really falls much more into the side of operations, especially operations that also are multi-departmental or they touch multiple teams, I guess is probably the best way to put it. And I mean I have a really distinct privilege of working with some larger companies, some smaller companies. I mean again, just in scale, just like the number of people, the number of people that actually work for some of the people that I get to do work for, you know, it can be a much more like flat organization. Or I can work with someone who is, you know, in a like director level position of a team, you know. So I, I I did end up in, I ended up like incorporating about two years ago and you know, but I finally got to the point where I was like you know what I just I have like so much great experience. I've just never really taken the time to actually put that down in a way that has some level of storytelling behind it of you know, I mean, it's still a funny question, like I was actually just having a conversation a couple of days ago where if someone were to say, what is it that you do, how would you, in some concise soundbite, communicate that? And my first question was is, I don't know, an acceptable answer? And of course it's not.
Speaker 2:So I think being resourceful and also being which I think a lot of people would identify with is coming from the position of becoming a generalist is a really good thing and also a really interesting thing to go through the process of trying to distill. So, um, you know, I I think the things that I get to do I mean again like kind of looking at everything with the veneer of of generalist mode um, the things that I really enjoy are, um, you know, things that that I can, things that I can help a team or a brand or a company understand that they might not have someone in their organization or part of their headcount. They know that it's something that they would find value in or they have not actually established. So something like email marketing would be a perfect example of hey, we have all of this customer data and we've never done anything with it. But we'd love to create something like a regular, some level of communique of an email newsletter or some sort of update or just regular piece of communication with mastheads and like different sections of our business. Like I love getting to the point where I get to help develop what that actually looks like, cause it's not like I'm not the most I'm certainly not a designer, I'm definitely not a the type of person where I would lean on my creative prowess. I would. I would love much more to offload that to someone else who's much more skilled than I am.
Speaker 2:But creating the structure, the understanding of audiences, of segmentation, of what level of audience health are you finding at high, medium and low, and what do those levels of, or what do those pieces of communication start to look like? How can you start to diversify what it is that you feel like you need to communicate and what are the things that you would say are actually of value to people that you, whether or not you want to look at it? It's like hey, this is your community, like, these are your people, like these are people who care. No-transcript. So I really love getting to do stuff like that. It's always really fun. It's like a discovery phase, but also then the strategizing and implementation and then management outside of that and working with teams to actually bring a lot of that to fruition is always really fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, a theme that I want to point out for people that you know, maybe you're you're thinking to yourself like I'm an email marketer, I'm, you know, have worked inside of these same spaces and I'm you know, I'm getting blocked on lead conversations or, you know, people are getting to the point where I'm giving out proposals and they're ghosting me and there's other things that happen, you know, along the way. One thing that I want to point out that Ben is, you know, kind of consistently revisiting as he's talking through, is the idea that you're not just positioning a specific skill set right and this is something that I think Kat Coffrin's session inside of the Indie Collective cohort does a great job of doing but, you know, focusing on your personal brand, and I think it's the four or the five Ps I'm not going to try to name them all because I will get that wrong but Kat Coffrin C-A-T-C-O-F-F-R-I-N. If you want to look her up on LinkedIn, she does a lot of great posts about this but really positioning yourself as A honest and operating with integrity. If you're going through that pitching process and the problem comes up and you don't know the answer, it is so much exponentially more valuable for you to look at that person in the eyes over the Zoom call, or be honest in an email feedback where it's like I do not have the direct answer for that question. Here are the three places that I would go looking, and here's why my past experience leads me to believe that I could solve this issue for you, versus trying to come back and say like, oh, I've encountered this before. This is a thing. I'm going to find this Because that does two things.
Speaker 1:A, you're going to put yourself in a situation where I like to say, don't fake it till you make it. Embody it until you become it, and you don't want to fake it until you make it. Then you end up living somebody else's life and you end up putting yourself in situations that you should not be in, and then you're stressed as hell when you're up in those situations. And then, secondly, the client has a lot less forgiveness or anticipated wiggle room when you say, hey, I have the solution for this, this is what we're going to do, and then get behind the walls and I used to work construction right, we would never tell a customer, hey, this is guaranteed what this is going to be until we actually cut the drywall and people look at what's behind the wall, yeah, and so if you can say, hey, I may not have a direct idea for this, but they get a feel for you being scrappy.
Speaker 1:They know that you're resourceful, they can see that you're a problem solver and you anchor more on those aspects of yourself rather than the specifics of the thing that you're trying to provide, I find that the customers trust you a little bit more and even if that initial job let's say you don't even find the solution, but you get them really close and then you connect them to the person that they need in order to get that solved. Anytime they have an unsolvable issue, after that they're going to be in your inbox, mm-hmm, being like, hey, we've been working on this for six months, pounding our heads off of our keyboards. The last time you came in here, you were able to help us get to the right person to solve the right problem within the right price range within three weeks or a month, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah is I've been in multiple situations where I think it's a natural response to feel stressed about being asked about how to solve a problem or what the solution would be, and the immediate reaction would be I feel stressed because I don't actually know how to answer that question sufficiently. Because I don't actually know how to answer that question sufficiently. But getting to the point, like what you said, jan, is I actually don't know. But give me a day, give me 12 hours, whatever, to do some research and find the answer or to see if that leads us down the right path. Like you know, most of the times especially when I've had to, like solve problems, you know something is creating. You know a um like a bottleneck in the way that things function, or something on someone's um. You know Shopify website is not actually producing whatever the way that it's supposed to.
Speaker 2:Most of the time, what you're looking for what I like to, what I call it is like it's. It's like it's like one of those goofy little murder mysteries. Like you're looking for what I like to what I call it is like it's like it's like one of those goofy little murder mysteries. Like you're always looking for the smoking gun, you know, but you usually find it, you know. So, and even if that, even if the discovery of the source of someone's problem or where they might actually need to position themselves to solve their own problem, even if that hasn't involved me at the end point of providing that solution or hands on keyboard fixing what it is that they need fixed, it does inform them enough to say, okay, well, we need to hire someone who would be a specialist or a developer to take care of this issue. And then that becomes another interesting journey for me to find sometimes that person to do this thing, which I can't tell you how many times I've actually had to do that, and each time it becomes a very edifying experience for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. We could probably spend an entire podcast episode just talking about how being open to again seizing opportunities that present themselves instead of seeking specific ones, and it's a fine balance. I'm not saying that you shouldn't niche down and I'm not throwing ideal customer profile out the window. Everyone listening, I'm not trying to tell you to just keep your net wide, that is not what I'm saying. But if you get into those relationships with customers, it's fine to let them know that you're open to being passionate about different areas of the business, right, like you talked about in the beginning, traditionally starting kind of marketing and now you're doing more ops stuff. But you know how valuable it is coming from an agency owner perspective, right, you know how valuable it is to find somebody that understands how to manage a team or the operations of something that has also been hands-on keyboard in the past and knows how to relate to those individuals, because that is a huge issue. If you were an agency owner listening to this and you have a gap inside of your workload and you're looking for somebody that can come in and actually be able to bring a team up to par and have those conversations manage some of that op side. Somebody like Ben is a great fit, because you bring somebody in that knows ops really well but doesn't know the pain of being a dev or being a email marketer or being somebody in that position. Them trying to lead without ever having been in the trenches is going to be a steep learning curve, and so that's something that I also am like really going to double click on is the fact that you've both been in the trenches, hand on keyboard, you've done those things and you're able to kind of understand the need, the business responsibilities, the bigger picture of what the execs might be looking for, and kind of more of that operation side. I think is a very rare skill set combination and something that is super valuable.
Speaker 1:We're kind of entering our last um. It's wild that like a half hour has already gone by and we're entering our like last 10 minute little stretch here. Yeah, um, so I mean, all of this has been awesome. Where did a? I'm curious, how did you find out about indie and where did that land in? Like your journey, um, and as far as your experience kind of coming out of the cohorts or being in the community at this point, what are some things that you see that have been impactful in your life or have put you in. You know, maybe it's things that have put you in uncomfortable situations. Maybe it's not all positive, but what are some things that you've noticed about the curriculum now that you've been an alumni?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the discovery of Indie Collective was really interesting for me. It started, actually, as a conversation that I was having with my wife about who is someone who has had the experience and also seen the benefit of just things that invest in yourself as a professional, like executive coaching and just development as a leader, as an executive, as a team leader, as a communicator, et cetera. So it was a conversation that we were having that was mostly about, for me, running a business of one or solopreneurship or whatever you want to define it as is taking the time and the resources that you have to continually pour back into how you're developing yourself, which is only because, at the end of the day, the business is you. You are the business. So, if you are plateauing or stagnating, what do you think's going to teach me more about who I am, what am I good at like, but also developing like that side of how I'm already doing business, but how do I do it better? So it started.
Speaker 2:It started as a conversation, and then I'm not kidding you Maybe a week had gone by and and this is not a plug, uh, of any kind, you know, because I, um, I'm obligated to do so, but I actually and this is so funny too the um, the, the company that I actually use, that did everything for me, like back office, setting up my LLC, all things legal, like telling me, like all the types of paperwork that I needed to do, do my taxes, everything is actually another company called Collective. So you have Collective and then you have Indie Collective. Two very different companies, two very different brands, different groups of people. But they sent me an email and it was basically an introduction from Sam Lee, the founder of Indie Collective, and it was just so perfect, the way that I was having this conversation and thinking about something that yet again felt very foreign to me, just kind of slid into place and, um, so I, I just I saw that as just like a, really, a really great opportunity.
Speaker 2:So, you know, filled out whatever the form was, and then, you know, had a, um, a great introductory conversation with sam, took a look at the curriculum and, like you know what this is exactly what I mean and there were some things that were kind of floating around in my mind about what I would, you know, maybe, um, you know, put as a, uh, like a pin on the map of of what curriculum would look like for something like indie collective, so it'd be things like understanding more, like ideal client profiles or you know, um, you know value-based pricing, stuff like that, you know. So it was like man, like those are the things that I know that I'm not really good at, so I'd love to be a part of a program like that. So, um, that it was kind of crazy. Everything really.
Speaker 2:I mean again, another really weird instance of things kind of presented themselves. Something that I was curious about, but I didn't, you know, I didn't go down the path of looking, looking at getting like an MBA, before I came to any collective. Any collective, definitely, you know, on a computer screen, you know, fell into my lap yeah, I, um, it's funny how.
Speaker 1:It's funny how the the universe like answers questions. Sometimes, you know you, I chuckle because everybody is, you know, hyper aware at this point, like, oh, my amazon, alexa, is listening to me and now my facebook is showing me ads for something I never even searched right. Um, and but then they don't believe in manifestation as a thing. And I'm, like you know, prior to that being like, you put the idea out and it's the whole ask and you shall receive concept right, you open yourself up to the possibility of that being a thing, even if it's foreign, even if it feels scary, and then boom, next thing you know, you have an email in your inbox. It's like whoa, like that's pretty close to what I was talking about. That's kind of, you know, crazy, um, and I think getting to a place and it's not the first time I've heard it either, but it's something that I want to highlight Joining something like Indie Collective should feel a little bit uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, I, I have so many conversations with people that are getting ready to join people that are, you know, I have so many conversations with people that are getting ready to join people that are, you know, oh, this isn't the right time, or I have clients that don't like this doesn't make sense for me right now, or you know things like that and I get it. You know, when I went to go invest into Indie Collective, I, you know, put three out of the last $7,000 that I had in my bank account at the time, you know, towards the course and I was like, oh, like this is, you know. You know, put me into a place where I'm feeling a little bit stressed or uncomfortable. And you know, sam was, you know, the payment plan thing and all that other kind of stuff was super helpful, um, but it didn't feel 100 good, you know, and going through the curriculum didn't feel 100 great all the time.
Speaker 1:But coming out of it and then being able to, like, be surrounded by other people that I saw were just as uncomfortable as I was but were willing to put themselves in that situation, and then seeing them doing amazing things where like, oh, maybe I can do the same thing, like I'm a peer. I'm a peer in this group, you know, we're kind of in the same place. Why am I not doing some of this stuff? And so, um, I, I, that's my, my kind of my final plug there, um, you know, for the curriculum and stuff is even if it's something that feels uncomfortable, that's fine, like that's kind of how it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to feel 100%. You know, sunshine and rainbows, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I would tell anyone I mean again, not not that I'm anyone of note to anyone who's potentially listening to this or as part of Indie Collective, but just my, my experience. After you know, going through Indie Collective in the fall and I'm looking forward to doing another cohort in the spring I would say to your point is anyone who would be considering Indie Collective or even something that would mirror Indie Collective is not at any point was Indie presented as hey, pay this fee and you'll get guaranteed this, and these are the types of connections that you'll make and you're going to grow your business by 60% or whatever. It's all about opportunity, but I think it's really more the revelation that you can probably experience for yourself, where you get to learn from peers but also people like Kat Coffrin. To me, that's the one mean that to me, like that's one that. That that stood out to me the most was, you know, just just hearing the way that people talked about things that you're already experiencing, and it creates a better understanding of how you could create action yourself, cause again, no one's coming back and saying like, oh, let me do all of these things for you. You still have to be the catalyst to do all these things in your own business. So it does present the opportunity, I think, for you to challenge yourself and your thinking more critically. But in no way is it just a sign up and kind of go to this like it's a college course. It's not just about like starting and finishing. I think the biggest part of Indie Collective and again, this is not the most marketable thing for Indie Collective, but it creates useful turmoil and it should.
Speaker 2:I think people need to understand that you should feel uncomfortable with your own things and your own work, that you're doing and how you might be doing things better or differently, or especially learning from other people, um, and, and some of the things that I've really enjoyed are just like. I've made plenty of mistakes. I haven't been afraid to fail in a lot of other places, but learning how other people have done that as well, you know it's like. It makes your palms start sweating. You're like oh my gosh, it like puts me back in that position of like where you know you're, you're nervous about you know what it is that you're doing, um, but it. I think it puts you in a position where it's um, it's good because it's it's also giving you the motivation to grow, you know, but um, that's, that's what I like the most. Is that? It, it, it, absolutely very, um, very eloquently puts you in a position of discomfort, but position for growth.
Speaker 1:Right. Yeah, I always kind of think of it like, like, when I went to bootcamp for the air force, right 10 weeks uh, maybe it'd been 11, um with airman's week or whatever they called it at the time. But you know it was not pleasant and I'm not by any means trying to compare the intensity of indie collective to like basic training. That is not trying to make um, but it's like the entrance right, I, I and I see this a lot and it's from people that have graduated and all over the place that come out of Indie Collective, from supply chain logistics consultants to e-commerce, to email marketing, to brand people, to coaches, all this stuff. There's this um sense of pride that comes with being able to say I'm an Indie alum, right. And you don't get that sense of pride and this sense of community without mutually surviving something difficult together, and I love the idea of useful turmoil. It's never easy when you go to scale.
Speaker 1:The version of you that got you to the start of the Indie Collective cohort is not the version of you that's going to take your business to the next level afterwards. There's parts of your identity that you're going to have to get more in tune with. There's parts that you're going to have to prune in order to allow more nutrients to go to the parts that you want to develop. That's not pleasant, so I know we're at time here. I want to make sure that people know where to get a hold of you, so if somebody is listening to this and they're like I would really love to have Ben on my team. Where is the best place for them to find you on the interwebs?
Speaker 2:I would say LinkedIn is probably the easiest place. Actually, I mean, honestly, that's the way that I've kept up with, I mean, other than like email and also using platforms through Indie Collective. That's the way that I've just connected with people and just messaging and bouncing some ideas off of. It's also just given me more of a thought of like directly asking questions as my network of people that I meet grows, looking for advice on you know things or asking about problems. And man, I'm just always surprised like people like you, you know people just have answers or you know thoughts. I'm like, hey, try this. So I spend more time on LinkedIn, I think, especially now. Um, so, yeah, I mean, it's just my name is Benjamin Gatz on LinkedIn. You can find me there. Um, you can, you can. I mean I have a website, um, but LinkedIn would would definitely be the um easiest place.
Speaker 1:Gatz is G E T Z right.
Speaker 2:E T Z.
Speaker 1:Yep, perfect, all right. Well, you heard it here first. If you want to get in touch with Ben, hop on the LinkedIn. At him, benjamin gets G E T Z. If you want to talk to me, um, about the indie collective curriculum or anything else, um, you know that came up as far as questions on this episode. That may be something that I brought up that you're more interested in diving into. You can look me up on LinkedIn. It's Jan. Looks like Jan J A N Alma C A L M A S Y Uh, and I'd be happy to shoot you a message back. So, um, again, this has been another episode of the modern independent, the launchpad series. I hope everybody that's listening has a great rest of their day and a successful rest of their year.